starlady: Peggy in her hat with her back turned under the SSR logo (agent carter)
Electra ([personal profile] starlady) wrote2016-12-10 05:50 pm
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Twenty years later, I put a few things together

My roommates have been making their way through the middle three Star Trek series (they're not watching ENT like sensible people and I can't convince them to watch TOS, like highly illogical people), and the penny has finally dropped for me that DS9 is in many ways (particularly in the first three seasons) playing off B5, while VOY is playing off Farscape. Or rather, both VOY and Farscape are dealing with very similar setups and issues, but Farscape explicitly goes about dealing with masculinity in a way that VOY just…doesn't, in the initial seasons. Masculinity and its fragility are consistent problems on Voyager, and Janeway and Torres (and to a lesser extent Kes and even Seska) are consistently forced to deal with the problems they cause, but VOY doesn't really do anything about them the way Farscape does; the Star Trek show treats the symptoms rather than the root causes.

In so many ways I'm glad they made DS9 when they did, because they could never make it now, but for VOY it's just the opposite, and I really wish it had been made in this era rather than 20 years ago.

ETA: And of course Stargate: Atlantis is the unification of both these strands of sci-fi: space station + we've been flung to the far side of the [$very large unit of space]. Note, of course, that neither SGA nor VOY could maintain that isolation forever.

recessional: bare-footed person in jeans walks on log (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-12-11 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
I . . .honestly can't fault them on not watching TOS; without existing affection for the series/etc plus nostalgia, it's honestly pretty dire and has not really aged well.
recessional: bare-footed person in jeans walks on log (Default)

[personal profile] recessional 2016-12-11 02:44 am (UTC)(link)
I would say if you can convince them that II and IV are worth watching, II just because it's got SO MANY echoes through the rest of even the TV serieses, and IV because it's actually a well-constructed little movie, (and poooossibly III just to fill in that plot point and also because the bit with the crew stealing the spaceship is awesome even if much of the rest is ABSURD), buuuut yeah.

My big problem going back to TOS is that Kirk bored the shit out of me. Everything always worked right for him! And you could tell, in his character. He never got interesting to me until after the events of Khan - after hitting a point where nothing HE could do could stop an outcome he found unacceptable. He became much more interesting to me, and I felt much more likeable as a character, after that.

(This is part of why I like AOS:Kirk more. When he rejects outcomes he doesn't want, he does it knowing full well the universe doesn't give a shit, and that the universe MIGHT WIN, and he's doing it anyway. TOS:Kirk prior to Wrath of Khan does it with the expectation that he'll Just Be Clever Enough To Win.)

zeborah: TV with a zebra body surround, displaying two zebras (tv)

[personal profile] zeborah 2016-12-11 07:37 am (UTC)(link)
I've been working my way through all the post-TOS series. (Rewatches for TNG through several seasons of Voyager; watching the last couple of seasons and Enterprise for the first time.) And I'm only a half dozen episodes into Enterprise, but so far I'm enjoying it more than Voyager.

The problem with Voyager from my perspective as viewer was it was all potential and no execution. Both on the macro scale (of the Starfleet vs Maquis conflict) and on the per-episode scale: they'd set up this scenario full of potential for drama, and then they'd reach the climax and... throw handwavium at it and cue credits.

And the ultimate cause of this, as described in an interview with one of the writers, was that no-one on the show cared about it in the slightest. This writer had come from DS9 where people were passionate about it, to a place where he'd say "So in episode 3 you say X but in episode 8 you say Y, what's actually going on?" and he'd be told "Who cares, just make something up." I don't think the era it was told in makes much difference - but if it had been written/acted by people who cared it could have been awesome.
sovay: (Sovay: David Owen)

[personal profile] sovay 2016-12-17 10:51 am (UTC)(link)
I couldn't get past the first episode of ENT, tbh, or whichever one it was where they had to smear goo on each other naked.

This was my experience of Star Trek: Enterprise and I still regret nothing.
cofax7: climbing on an abbey wall  (Default)

[personal profile] cofax7 2016-12-11 03:42 pm (UTC)(link)
If Voyager had been made now, I might have been able to watch it... But I threw it down in disgust after the "devolve to salamanders" episode.

That said, I have some faint hope for the new show. Although god knows how I'll watch it; I'm certainly not paying CBS yet another monthly fee.
sovay: (Rotwang)

[personal profile] sovay 2016-12-17 10:48 am (UTC)(link)
In so many ways I'm glad they made DS9 when they did, because they could never make it now, but for VOY it's just the opposite, and I really wish it had been made in this era rather than 20 years ago.

I have really enjoyed being shown selected episodes of Voyager by a friend who owns the entire show and knows which episodes are good, because they exist, they are just entirely unpredictable from title or placement in the series. When the show was actually airing, however, I watched the pilot and went away, then came back and watched a two-part season finale and went away, then stayed away entirely.

I will always love original Star Trek because I imprinted heavily on Spock as a child, got interested in McCoy as I got older, and think the ideas behind the series were often genuinely radical, even if often in practice they worked out awkwardly at best and WHAT THE HELL NO at worst. As a thought experiment it was absolutely worthwhile.