starlady: (tomoyo magic hope)
Electra ([personal profile] starlady) wrote2011-07-18 08:14 pm
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Dispatches from the bungo frontier

Well, my class in classical Japanese ended on Friday, and I have to say, it was both pretty awesome and a fantastic use of six weeks: I went from zero knowledge to reading Genji monogatari in the original in just that amount of time, which is lightning fast. Apparently this amount of training would normally take two semesters at the college level--and as a bonus, we learned first principles for kuzushiji and hentaigana (pre-modernization handwritten forms), which is normally a whole other class in itself as well.

And in the end, my classmates and our professor and I had a pretty good time together; we were an odd group, but we were a group, particularly after we went drinking with some professors at Kandai as a group (long story) two weeks ago. I already miss them, though I don't miss getting up at 07:00 to get down to Doshisha on time.

Scattered notes: 

# I really love classical Japanese. It gets something of a bad rep for being vague, but it's certainly no vaguer than, say, classical Latin, though I do find it interesting that between the three classical languages I know (classical Japanese, Latin, ancient Greek), they all have slightly different strengths and weaknesses. To wit, Greek has a deserved reputation as being both horribly subtle and exacting (case in point: the middle voice, the dual, the optative mood) (there's a reason that the greatest works of ancient European philosophy were written in Greek), while Latin was initially better suited for precision than it was for poetry (viz. the future perfect), and classical Japanese is…somewhere in the middle relatively speaking but on a different axis, I think. All the verbal prefixes/infixes/suffixes (there aren't really any actual infixes, but they can all be strung together for so long that some combinations start feeling like infixes after a while) and resulting piled-on associations and connotations give the prose a supple strength that's wonderful to read and wickedly difficult to translate.

# As previously mentioned, Kaguya-hime of Taketori monogatari is a complete bad-ass until she's brainwashed by her ostensible kinsmen, the moon-people, into being as affectless as they are. Three words: science fiction retelling.

# The Heike monogatari is hard-core. The death of Atsumori is also one of the slashiest pieces of literature I have read in a long time, right down to mutual crying before death (on a beach no less), and I was not the only one who picked up on this. Also, Taira no Kiyomori was a total bad-ass. Evil, but a bad-ass. It was constantly disconcerting to be reminded of The Iliad when reading an oral epic from in medieval Japan, eight hundred years ago: the events of the Iliad are roughly three thousand years old.

# The Genji monogatari is still amazing. We read most of the Aoi chapter, and I have to say…wow. I've read Genji in English, in the Tyler translation, which I would still recommend to people who want to read Genji, which everyone should because it's amazing, amazingly socially calibrated and psychologically real--kind of like Proust crossed with Austen crossed with James, except a thousand years ago in Heian-kyo, and it's also, despite the title, I think, a deeply--feminist is not the right word, but the female characters are very much the center of the novel, and one does catch hints of the author slipping in some very subtle criticisms of her society, or at least, of male behavior in her society--not so much in text but at the level of plot and device, but it's definitely there. 

Unfortunately, I don't think any of the English translations (and the Tyler is far and away the single best version) are quite clued in to this aspect. The Aoi chapter (spoilers: she dies) is concerned, despite the name, principally with the Rokujô lady, whose liaison with Genji exacerbates her precarious social position and, it's clear, her own incipient mental instability. The creeping horror of Rokujô realizing that she can't even trust her own mind (in the full sense of the word, heart/mind, kokoro), that she is the spirit possessing Aoi, after pages and pages of obsessive rumination over the same confined psychological and emotional territory--it's a horror story, plain and simple, and Virginia Woolf, I think, would have recognized it. And this doesn't even add in the bodily horror of what happens to Aoi (it's very Rosemary's Baby, actually), who falls pregnant and says nothing directly after that and during her pregnancy is spirit-ridden, not just by Rokujô but by many random spirits who show up to use her as a mouthpiece for their grievances, and perpetually ill. A formerly spirited woman is reduced to a wreck of herself, so much that you can't tell whether she's alive or dead by looking at her; in their last interview, typically, Genji blathers on at her while she lies there semi-catatonic. It is a horror story, but Tyler's prose is too polished and urbane to do much more than barely hint at this. 

# For reasons still not clear to me, our class decided that what the world needs is a Genji/Lord of the Rings fusion. I'm not going to disagree.

# Given that Genji is canonically called Shining Genji, and in light of his creepy creeper behavior, I'm having a really hard time not thinking of him as Sparklepire.

# Also, on some levels, the narrator of Genji is the Gossip Girl of her world. I kind of love that, actually. (Note: narrator ≠ author, though they obviously share somewhat similar social backgrounds.)
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 02:34 pm (UTC)(link)
Sounds like an awesome class.

And yes, Heike is awesomesauce (though I've only read it in McCullough's translation). Very low Ninja replacement score. I also like how Tomoe Gozen appears in exactly four paraphraphs and still manages to steal the scene of her liege-lord's melodramatic last stand.

That takes work. Or serious badassery.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 02:48 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm considering it. Eventually. I need to, at the very least, make it all the way through some long work in modern Japanese. (My current goal is 銀河鉄道の夜 by the end of the year, but I'm still slow enough that may not be possible without giving up the Kokinshu.)

---L.
thistleingrey: (Default)

[personal profile] thistleingrey 2011-07-18 05:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Tomoe! Good to know about the McCullough; I have a copy but am waiting till I can read paper again at better than a snail's pace and without minor disasters. I think I stopped about fifty pages in (due to baby, not disinterest).
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 06:44 pm (UTC)(link)
It takes about a third of the story for the set-up to finish getting, well, set up, but once the swords are drawn, they are drawn in earnest and the real entertainment begins. (The first sword, IIRC, is a ceremonial sword that gets easily bent, but its wielder still manages to fight his way past fourteen or fifteen policemen come to arrest him, bent blade regardless.)

---L.
jesse_the_k: text: Be kinder than need be: everyone is fighting some kind of battle (CKR smiles in hat)

[personal profile] jesse_the_k 2011-07-18 03:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I love these metalinguistic meditations, even if I'm only pretending to understand them. Also, I assume there are Japanese country&western bands; I think you could write a hell of a song:
You've strung me along for so many months, dear
you're infixing me like a damn dirty dog.

Thanks!
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 03:39 pm (UTC)(link)
I've found Japanese C&W on YouTube. It wasn't pretty. Made me appreciate enka just that little bit more.

---L.
thistleingrey: (Default)

[personal profile] thistleingrey 2011-07-18 05:24 pm (UTC)(link)
I thought -n- was an infix in Latin as well? It's been a while.

To avoid making a third comment:
The class sounds really great, at least re: focus/speed.
rushthatspeaks: (Default)

[personal profile] rushthatspeaks 2011-07-19 12:17 am (UTC)(link)
Well, there kind of is one in English-- 'fuck', which can be put into anyfuckingplace really. But nothing syllabic or alphabetic.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-19 03:33 am (UTC)(link)
Split infinitives can be treated as phrasal infixes. But I don't know if it's particularly useful to do so, aside from thus parrying those who inveigh against them.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 03:38 pm (UTC)(link)
BTW, a bungo question while it's still fresh on your mind:

This may be my inexperience here, but looks to me that when an explicit subject immediately precedes a verb, the case marker is not just optional but in fact always omitted, at least in the Kokinshu era. I haven't seen this specifically articulated as a rule, though. However, when a direct object immediately precedes a transitive verb, the case marker seems to be more optional. (KKS 2:115, for example, has two direct objects right before the transitive verb, one with and one without its を.) Can you confirm this?

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 04:33 pm (UTC)(link)
Haru is a pivot-word here -- "bend/pull" for the bow (which is the only reason the bow is here at all -- it's a jo to set up the pivot) and "spring" attributively for the foothills/mountain region. As such, the bow is an unmarked direct object and yama-be a marked one, what he crossing over.

My current draft translation is:

When I cross over
(with my catalpa bow drawn)
the mountains of spring,
I cannot keep to the road --
the flowers are scattering.

A bit of gallantry to the ladies-as-flowers, spiced with the wit of a pivot-word.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 04:36 pm (UTC)(link)
I admit I'm a little hazy on how to understand sariaezu here -- is it that he cannot step off the road (because, what, he might step on the flowers?) or that he pass by on the road (because the whirling petals confuse/blind him?). Either way, yes, mo as bound emphatic.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
One lady? I was reading that as many ladies.

But an ah-ha! moment for that michi mo usage. I missed that in my dictionary (and I'm calling privilege of recuperation to justify being too lazy to cross the house to doublecheck check mine -- but man to I so like finally having a kogojiten; SO much easier to sift these things with one). So "cannot keep to" is pretty close.

Now to work on the sound of the translation, because like everything else Tsurayuki wrote, his is much more graceful than my draft.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-19 02:56 am (UTC)(link)
おほく = 多く, no?

In the Kokinshu, the division after the third line was still far from universal -- maybe half of the first hundred poems fall that way (I haven't counted). The remainder have the old style of division after the second line and other patterns, with break after the fourth surprisingly common (see also 119, just a few on). Tsurayuki in particular is prone to mixing it up, including sometimes writing with a clear tripartate structure.

That said, no, not his best -- it's a bit of spur-of-the-moment social poetry, and I get the sense he's not as good at that as, say, Mitsune. But it's better than a good number of his love poems, several of which are not very convincing.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 05:00 pm (UTC)(link)
I've noticed that when lines go hypermetrical with an extra syllable, it usually (though not always) is when two vowels in the middle can be sortof-almost elided together -- but only in the middle, as opposed to a wo at the end. But then, many of these pivoted jo constructions were conventional (some to the point of ossified), and so I'm guessing readily understandable without the case-marker.

I don't think the azusayumi is engo with anything else in the poem, though. I'm not exactly expert at all the associations, though.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-18 05:07 pm (UTC)(link)
(And for an example of elidable hypermetric, line 4 of this one.)
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

Re: trying a very rough translation

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-19 02:25 pm (UTC)(link)
A point. I've seen IZK+ba used so that it's pretty clear the whole sequence takes place in a generic time, even with it being a temporal rather than causal sequence. But those I think are generally describing repeated actions or general-rule situations, and that's not the case here -- it's a specific incident, that happened at a specific time, and IZK is a "perfective" form.

That said, the other two verbs are not completed, giving mixed tenses if we follow that in English, which sounds off: "when I crossed, I cannot keep to the road." And the final -keru can (among all its other functions) indicate continuing state, which seems likely here.

All part of the juggling act.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-19 03:59 am (UTC)(link)
Okay, I just found an answer to this: KKS 2:120, last line, 人の見るらむ -- in context, I can't read の as anything but subject marker. So it's not always dropped when right before the verb.

But boy, it sure seems likely.

---L.
lnhammer: the Chinese character for poetry, red on white background (Default)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-19 02:11 pm (UTC)(link)
Definitely for the meter.

---L.
laceblade: Usagi (Sailor Moon) and Minako (Sailor Venus) in high school uniforms, clasping hands and laughing (Sailor Moon: Usagi & Minako)

[personal profile] laceblade 2011-07-18 03:52 pm (UTC)(link)
re: Kaguya-hime sci-fi retelling: .....IS THIS WHAT THE SAILOR MOON S MOVIE IS BASED ON?! (see also: manga special story, volume 11)
owlectomy: A squashed panda sewing a squashed panda (Default)

[personal profile] owlectomy 2011-07-18 05:20 pm (UTC)(link)
I was about to say that I had class envy, but I think that's not quite the word for envying your class. *g*

My experience with classical Japanese was getting dropped mid-year into a college bungo course for native speakers, only because my adviser taught classical Japanese. It was a pretty brutal sink-or-swim situation. (Sadly, McGill didn't offer Classical Japanese either year I was there and at a level to take it.)

Shimizu Reiko's Kaguya Hime manga is an amazing mishmash of science fiction melodrama and Kaguya-hime mythology, with organ-donor clones and bonus badass heroine. I'd recommend it more if I actually understood much of it.
lnhammer: Yotsuba Koiwai running - caption: "Enjoy Everything" (enjoy everything)

[personal profile] lnhammer 2011-07-19 02:57 am (UTC)(link)
pick up one of the "crib bungo for the college entrance exams!" books they sell here

*is jealous*
torachan: (Default)

[personal profile] torachan 2011-07-19 02:11 am (UTC)(link)
I had classical Japanese in college, but don't remember much of anything since I never made use of it beyond that class.
anehan: Elizabeth Bennet with the text "sparkling". (Default)

[personal profile] anehan 2011-07-19 11:52 am (UTC)(link)
Serious envy here. I'm consoling myself with the fact that I have a class on Jane Austen in the autumn, but somehow that doesn't sound quite as bad-ass as classical Japanese. :D

[identity profile] loanwords.livejournal.com 2011-07-18 02:31 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm mentally preparing myself to be super jealous of your ability to speak Japanese with Dai's parents. Just FYI. ;) <3

[identity profile] starlady38.livejournal.com 2011-07-18 02:35 pm (UTC)(link)
It's entirely situational. I can bushwhack through the Heike, but if we talk about something I have no vocabulary for, I'm screwed. Also, the only dialects I can reliably understand are Kansai- and Kyoto-ben.

All of which is to say, ack! Fwiw, I feel the same way around people who can speak better than I do, such as some of my classmates. My accent in particular has been slipping, I need to try to remember to get it right when I speak.

[identity profile] loanwords.livejournal.com 2011-07-18 02:38 pm (UTC)(link)
His mom will probably speak standard to you... his dad will probably have fun seeing you react to Awa-ben... but a lot of Awa-ben is similar to Kansai-ben, so you might do better than you think!