BBC Sherlock, and a question

[starlady]

My sister finished showing me Sherlock last night. It's a fun show, as long as you can ignore all the things that are absolutely enraging about it. (On that note, listening to my sister yelling at the TV when the commentary video was playing was priceless. She hates what the show did to Irene Adler too.) I still can't do any better than two posts that magnetic_pole wrote when the show was originally airing:

• Neoliberal Holmes, or Everything I Need to Know About Modern Life I Learned From Sherlock
• A Scandal in the Blogosphere

I don't have a link handy about everything that was wrong with the second episode, but let me not omit to mention how Orientalist and racist it was. And if anyone can explain the nonsense with the planes and the dead bodies in 2x01 to me, that would be cool, because it makes no fucking sense. General protip: if you are more racist or sexist than Arthur Conan Doyle, you've got real problems.

Well, actually, I was thinking of melannen's posts on the show too: 

• Sherlock
• I'm bored, Sherlock, and your casefiles are boring

And this post, Modernizing Holmes by naraht, has some discussion that is still interesting.

We also got into a fairly heated argument about the following question.

Poll #12525 Sorting Sherlock and John

Open to: Registered Users, detailed results viewable to: All, participants: 43

View Respondents

What Hogwarts House is Sherlock?

View Answers

Ravenclaw
25 (58.1%)

Slytherin
18 (41.9%)

What Hogwarts House is John?

View Answers

Gryffindor
19 (44.2%)

Hufflepuff
24 (55.8%)

Comments

[anotherslashfan]

I think what disqualifies Sherlock for Slytherin is that he isn't power hungry (just attention-hungry), doesn't perceive himself as a person whose worth is greater than that of others (despite his blatant arrogance), and doesn't maipulate others for personal gain, but rather to further his true interest: solving riddles. I should add that the qualities I just ascribed to Slytherin are maybe slanted towards the negative but I think it's exactly lacking the darker sides of being Slytherin that makes Sherlock more of a Ravenclaw.

[starlady]

I actually copied out all the relevant parts of the three Sorting Hat songs, and I think the Slytherin characteristic Sherlock fits most is that he's cunning and ruthless. And pure-blooded. and neoliberal.

You don't think the person he cares most about is Sherlock, really?

[kindkit]

I don't think Sherlock is a Slytherin, as ruthless as he is, because he's not interested in power as such. He's interested in the problem. Mycroft (whom I love) is interested in power, and Mycroft is Slytherin to the core.

And John is Gryffindor, I think, because what's key to him is the willingness to take risks, and even a joy in it.

While I agree that the show has sometimes failed badly, I don't think the fail is constant enough to cross the line from "good show with faily moments" to "faily show." But this is a subject on which there is much strong disagreement.

[starlady]

It does make sense for BBC!Mycroft and Sherlock to be in different houses because Sherlock hates Mycroft so much. It would be very canonical for the hat to offer Sherlock Slytherin and him to ask for Ravenclaw.

The sexism, and the fact that so many of the casefiles just aren't that great, are just too much for me.

[melannen]

BBC Sherlock isn't clever enough for Ravenclaw. :P (Possibly I would have voted differently if you hadn't linked those old posts for me to re-read, but... yeah. He's exactly the sort of thoughtless that would fit right in to Slytherin, plus I suspect if given the choice, which the Hat probably would have done, he'd've chosen the house most likely to annoy his brother.)

Mycroft probably is Ravenclaw, though. Being in Slytherin would've made it too obvious what he was up to, and he doesn't want power for its own sake (or acclaim at all.) (BBC!Mycroft is more Slytherin than his Doyle counterpart, though, Doyle!Mycroft probably didn't even get offered Slytherin.)

BBC!John is, a, an adrenaline junkie, and b, has trouble remembering his girlfriends' names, both of which are 100% Gryffindor traits, and, c, has a tendency to do morally ambiguous things without it ever shaking his conviction of moral rightness. (Doyle!John is probably Hufflepuff, though, what with the being gentlemanly, dashing, and badass.)

[starlady]

God, what even was with the supposed casefile in 2x01. It makes no bloody sense, no matter what Mycroft blathers on about.

Yes, you're right that he certainly is an adrenaline junkie.

[anatsuno]

This Sherlock HP fusion I podficced has an interesting answer, methinks. :D

[amalnahurriyeh]

I love that fic! Have to listen to your podfic. :)

[anatsuno]

:D! I hope you enjoy it if you do! I did not know the story until I was commissioned to read it (I put podfic up for charity in a fandom auction) and I really loved it. :))

[amalnahurriyeh]

It's a fun show, as long as you can ignore all the things that are absolutely enraging about it.

This is my core feeling about it. Luckily, I have gotten very good at prying apart my "holy shit that is fucked up let's talk about that" instincts from my "has massive and inescapable fannish feels about" instincts. Sigh.

The Blind Banker is so intensely awful. I think the one time I tried to rewatch it I literally only watched twenty minutes of it, because the rest was just WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS, WHY WHY WHY, YOU ARE BOTH RACIST AND INCOMPREHENSIBLE. (Although none of the casefiles are ever, truly, any good as casefiles. That one just rankles by dialing up the fuckery to eleven.)

I have deep and inescapable feels about the show, which are probably apparent from how I write about it, but it's real work to try to dig out the parts that really move me from the rest of it. And now I've imprinted in a totally awkward way on it, such that I am stuck. I enjoy what I'm doing, but it's not always fun getting there.

Unfortunately, I have too much fanon in my head to answer the poll from my own opinions, rather than fannish consensus. :)

[starlady]

I mean, there are very few if any things that are not problematic. This show just doesn't push enough of my buttons to give me any reason to get over its massive humps of fail. Particularly when the RDJ movies are giving me all the Sherlock Holmes feels I could want, in a definitely less sexist and arguably less racist way.

[seekingferret]

I don't want to hide any of the sexism of Sherlock, I just think that mixed in with the misogyny and sexism of Belgravia is a whole pile of fascinating thoughts on gender and identity, and that's more than Bohemia gave us. The scene where John and Irene talk about how they're both in some fashion in love with Sherlock, but neither is attracted to him, almost saves all the show's no-homo jokes in Season 1. The Christmas scene ends with Sherlock humiliating Molly, but before that we see this amazing found family of Sherlock, John, Mrs. Hudson, and Molly sharing what is genuinely and recognizably a domestic, family moment. And Irene calling herself "The Woman" instead of it being the condescending name Sherlock applies to her is a fascinating and thought-provoking reversal.

And then there's a whole mountain of fail. And then there's the end of the episode. So I don't know, I don't blame you for rejecting it completely, but I do think there is a lot there worth trying to salvage, and I get frustrated when people compare it unfavorably to Bohemia.

[melannen]

Really? I see all kinds of fascinating stuff about gender and identity in Bohemia - most foregrounded, that it's about Irene choosing to move between the class/gender roles of Bad Girl and Good Wife, and what she has to do, to manage that, and the way then men's preconceptions about those two categories keep them from seeing what she's actually doing. The identities she moves between are roles that are not nearly as distinct in the modern day as they were in the late 19th/early 20th century, but it's huge in the context of where the story was originally set.

[metanewsmods]

I'd like to link this at metanews, is that okay?

[starlady]

Of course! Anything that isn't locked is for public consumption and discussion. :)

[sapphoatsunset]

Sherlock seems to me very concerned about Sherlock. He helps because he wants the notoriety. He likes being the 'best' and the 'only' xxxx and takes on cases that no one else would because when he solves the puzzle, he is just that much better than everyone else. He's an academic, but only because it's a means to an end, and showing one up on Mycroft makes him gleeful. He likes that the police force is crippled without him and that he always has the answer first because he can preen and feel superior. And, he doesn't truly explain things in terms people can follow--sure he explains things, but does anyone connect it all completely? I think that's on purpose. Manipulate the competition and ensure they can't beat you. He's underhanded and cunning. Def Slytherin.

For John: I think he does the right thing but because he had to be pushed into excitement and wouldn't do it without Sherlock, I think he's a Hufflepuff.

[starlady]

My sister and I were specifically arguing about John and the risk-taking--like, obviously Mycroft is right when he tells John that he misses the war, welcome back to it? And obviously John is a brave BAMF. But let's not forget that he went to the war as a doctor (classic support capacity/profession), and like you say, he has to be pushed into it by Sherlock (though he takes to it like a duck to water once he does). So yes, very much a Hufflepuff along Cedric Diggory lines.

And yes, I agree with everything you say about Sherlock too. I think it's very telling that I don't actually like or sympathize with him in this rendition very much, whereas normally my "I WAY OVERIDENTIFY WITH SHERLOCK HOLMES" feels are always at 11.

[sapphoatsunset]

Yay agreement! I actually like this Sherlock though because he seemed more flawed to me than previous one's and I can appreciate that he's a bit human. Yes, he's a super genius, but he's also human in his motivations. It makes for an interesting character study ^__^

And, truthfully, if I was a good copper case story, I read The Yard again. :)

[starlady]

I find BBC!Sherlock much less relatable because sociopath who ostentatiously hasn't learned to give a shit about other people. Whereas I find most other Holmeses to be very relatable, and very human.