AMVs versus vids (Can o' worms? Check! Can opener? Check! Let's rock and roll!)

[starlady]

So I gave were_duck a list of AMV recs for the Vid Party she and damned_colonial are organizing at WisCon (I'm so excited, seriously). And as part of that I watched a lot of AMVs in a very short time span, which I haven't done in forever, and which caused me to say this in reply to lian's post on original versus fan works. And then both of them asked me, more or less, for my thoughts on AMVs versus vids.

Here's were_duck 's question:

I'm getting the sense from the few amvs that I've seen that there are significant differences between vids and amvs, but I don't really have the language to express what that is other than just saying that they come from different subcultures/traditions. Care to share your thoughts on the subject?

So let me repost my reply:

Hmm. Well, I can say a few things, certainly. I guess the first thing is that AMVs have come a long way from their VCR to VHS origins in the late 80s/early 90s, as I imagine vids have (when did vidding become a thing? same time? earlier? later?); the VHS AMVs that were made with access to professional-grade equipment still stand up, but they fit on the low end of the...hmm...technicality spectrum now.

The thing I notice over and over again is that AMVs abhor lipflap. Seriously, if there's one thing that'll get you flamed as an utter noob in AMV circles it's lipflap. Conversely, lip syncing done well is a real ideal of the genre. Whereas, in most vids I've seen the attitude seems to be that lipflap happens and you've just got to deal with it.

The other thing I notice is that, particularly in the last three-four years, AMVs have become feats of video editing and digital clip creation achievement. That one I linked above, "The Running Man", epitomizes this trend--there isn't a single frame of that video that hasn't been digitally retouched in some way, and a good chunk of it is original animation (actually, remind me to dig up the link to this one Death Note AMV I saw last year that has even more original animation). So the end result is this amalgamation of transformed and original content in a transformative practice that ends up somewhere in between the two, in terms of impact, I think. Whereas most vids I've seen are almost wholly using transformed content, and in terms of aim they are usually engaging directly with the source fandom, whether as critique or meta discussion or story-telling. The AMVs that are most popular these days, by contrast, tend to be multi-anime, and tend to have sheer spectacle as their purpose. Even when an AMV uses a single anime and an obviously relevant song (I'm thinking of this Soul Eater AMV here), it tends not to tell a story so much as harp on a trope. Actually, if you take a look at the 2010 Viewers' Choice Awards on animemusicvideos.org, you can see this made clear in the categories: Storytelling and No Effects get their own particular categories because they're the exception, not the rule.

A lot of this is just, I think, fairly deterministic in that it can be chalked up to the nature of the footage that vidders have available to them, respectively. I don't really think it's possible to make a multi-TV fandom dance vid, for example, but damn straight you can make some awesome multi-anime dance AMVs.

Apparently Francesca Coppa wrote an article about AMVs versus vids at one point, but I haven't read it, or so lian says here.

You'll note that my reply doesn't actually say much about the nature of vids, because I am still very much a noob when it comes to vids. I have probably seen two dozen total in my lifetime (sad, I know!)--whereas I personally have made 15 AMVs, and have inchoate plans for a lot more (and I should note, I am very much an old school AMV person, one who thinks primarily in terms of single-anime AMVs and has neither the plans nor the desire to become one of the technical wizards). So what do you think of my thoughts, vidders? Am I terribly wrong and just don't know it? And if I am, then where?   

ETA: Thanks to wistfuljane, have two hilarious posts by thefourthvine addressing this question from a vidder's perspective: Anime Vids for Media Fans, and The AMV Feedback Project: Reaching New Heights of Obsession!.

I should probably actually write up a bit of description for each of those recs I posted, shouldn't I? *sigh* 

ETA 2: Here are my AMV recs, with explanations!

ETA 3: One final related post!

Comments

[starlady]

I wrote out my recs with text.

I'll have to check out those dance vids you mention; I wonder if we're using the same words to describe different things, like thefourthvine talks about. *g*

Anyway, more as I think about it.

[were_duck]

I saw your written out recs, and am grateful you took the time! Thank you.

I think you're right, we're probably using the same words in different ways. I'll admit, if you come up with a definition of what a 'dance vid' is/means in your parlance, we can probably come to an understanding! Mine is pretty much "vid set to a song that you can dance to, possibly with images of people dancing or otherwise doing visually interesting things", and I am not a vid expert--actual live action fandom vidders might have more specific or different ideas about what constitutes a 'dance vid'.

[starlady]

...Is the intention with a dance vid that people actually dance?

[damned_colonial]

So I have a working definition that I use when categorising my vids (why yes, I have a huge pile of vids on my hard drive, ask me about it sometime). To me, in live action media fandom, a dance vid is a vid which is:

a) made from sources which show people dancing (eg. musicals)
b) the overall vid has a sort of choreographed look, as if it were all one seamless musical number

were_duck already mentioned a couple, but I would add:

Puttin' On The Ritz by killa and tzikeh (mostly classic musicals).

Starlight by Buffyann (um, hard to explain the source movie genre, but there are several movies here that are about people working to become dancers, get into dance school, win dance competitions, etc.)

When I was looking for links to the above, I also found Dance with me by chasarumba, which uses ballroom dance movies.

There's also a sort of secondary definition of dance vids (IMHO) which is more like what you see at Club Vivid. Club Vivid is a vid show that happens at Vividcon each year, where people make vids to danceable music, and they run the show as a dance party (i.e. people aren't sitting in chairs, they're up and dancing). There are no rules other than that it needs to be danceable music, but the aesthetic there tends towards shiny and, um, shallow I guess? Like, I mean that you don't have to watch carefully for themes and narrative. They often have striking visuals and lots of motion.

[starlady]

There are no rules other than that it needs to be danceable music, but the aesthetic there tends towards shiny and, um, shallow I guess? Like, I mean that you don't have to watch carefully for themes and narrative. They often have striking visuals and lots of motion.

That sounds a lot more like what a dance AMV is--both the Kaleido Star AMVs on my recs list fit the bill, actually, because they are about choreographing bodies in motion to a dance track, and use lots of digital effects to do it (though that particular anime brought the sparkles in the source footage). I know there are dance parties at Otakon, but I don't think they use AMVs, just dance music.

And, see, there aren't enough dance anime, I'd say, to make AMVs about--"Hold me now" is set to a magical ballerina anime, and it's honestly the only anime having to do with dance that I can think of.

[elz]

You can actually see the Club Vivid playlists from years past through the Vividcon website, although I'm not sure there are direct links to the vids from there. I think all three you linked to were originally Club Vivid vids - if you can dance to it and it involves characters dancing, it seems to go over especially well!